Talk:First year
Harry's First Year I am a little concerned with the level of detail contained in the section "Harry's First Year." This appears to be a pretty close to verbatim summary of one section of the first book. First, I think we have to assume that everyone visiting this site has already read the books, so a simple "retelling" of the story is not needed. Second, while I do not think this portion of the entry has crossed the line, it is getting close to being a copyright violation as currently written. For these two reasons it may be best to rewrite this section. Wva 22:16, February 24, 2012 (UTC) I completely agree and I'm starting to work on this page, please any member and administrators feel free to undo or warn me about illegal/unecessary changes ' Arayam Rosa' (owl me!) '' 17:40, May 4, 2012 (UTC) Average Number of First Year Students Being a major Harry Potter fan and obsessed with details (my inner Author) I have noticed a huge flaw with the so called average number of first years each year. It says, and I quote: 'On average, there are around 144 new first years attending Hogwarts each academic year.' When on average there is only between 40 and 50 new students each year. I base this on the fact that in the books there are 5 boys in Harry's Dorm and from Gryffindor in his classes. (Harry, Ron, Neville, Dean and Seamus) And in the girls there are also 5. (Hermione, Parvati, Lavender and two mostly unidentified girls, one is known as Fay in the movies and a game.) In Slytherin there was Draco, Crabbe, Goyle, Theodore, Blaise, Pansy, Tracey, Daphne and Millicent,'' In Ravenclaw, Terry, Michael, Anthony, Kevin, Lisa, Isobel, Morag, Padma and Sue. In Hufflepuff, Justin, Ernie, Wayne, Zacharias, Susan, Hannah, Megan and possibly Leanne. Unknown House, Roger Malone, Oliver Rivers, Lily Moon, Sophie Roper and Sally-Anne Perks. If mny calculations are wrong please tell me, if they are not then this page needs someone to go through and check for other false or flawed information. I-Angel92 (talk) 01:52, January 13, 2013 (UTC) :That's correct, there are forty students in Harry's year. However, Harry's year must be far below average (perhaps as a result of the recent war, but that would be speculation), as Rowling has stated that there are, in an average year, one thousand students at Hogwarts. Forty times seven is nowhere near one thousand. This is also supported by a line in Half-Blood Prince, which describes two hundred Slytherin students watching a Quidditch game, when it should be half that if all years are like Harry's in size. -- 1337star (Drop me a line!) 02:11, January 13, 2013 (UTC) Number of students (lack of citation) I believe the comment here that there is about 144 new students per year was based on a comment JK Rowling made in an interview that there is approximately 1000 students attending Hogwarts at any given time. She recanted this statement in a later interview and said 600, but then added that she wasnt doing the calculations and that she is bad with numbers. I do think she intended when writing, for the boys in Harry's dorm to be the only first year boys in Gryffindor. Therefore putting the total number of students closer to about 300 students, which is also corroborated by the fact that Rowling said the Great Hall filled with students in the movie, looked just how she imagined it in the books. I understand there is still much debate on this topic, but I choose to think in numbers around 300 because that is how I read the books and watched the movies. That was the number in my head and much of the evidence seems to support it. Sources: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/jkr-letter-responses.html http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-hogwarts-how-many.html First Year Timetable I'm just curious from what perspective the timetable was designed...from a specific house or not? If I'm not mistaken, my copy of the first book implies that Harry's first Potions lesson was on a Friday, and it was Double Potions. It also states that Harry in his first year attended Herbology three times a week. I'm just curious as to how accurate this timetable is, or exactly which house the timetable here represents. Is there critical information we're missing? 05:25, January 29, 2013 (UTC) :It is built using references from The Philosopher's Stone and the video game of the same name. I haven't played the game, but I would think that it is from a Gryffindor students perspective. I don't think the timetable is supposed to be complete, only to indicate the positions of the classes that are known. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'Snorlax']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'Monster']] 07:28, January 29, 2013 (UTC) Shorter school days for first-year students? I am curious about the length of the school days for first-year students, due to the timetable. Is Harry only going to class for half of a day - first and second period - except when he has Flying and Astronomy on Wednesdays? If the school days actually consist entirely of two periods, then it is more confusing. A two-part day implies that Snape is spending half of Monday, half of Wednesday, and all of Friday teaching Harry + the others in Harry's Potions class . This doesn't allow time for Snape to also be teaching his second- through fifth-year classes. He must be teaching all students in those years, because he only stops teaching some after fifth year (if their O.W.L. scores are not good enough for his advanced Potions classes). UnicornWolf (talk) 22:09, February 22, 2014 (UTC) :Well, Astronomy takes place at midnight, nowhere near the other classes. As for the rest, I'm afraid I don't know where you read that classes were only half-days? --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 22:59, February 22, 2014 (UTC) :I didn't read anywhere that classes are only half-days. That is the question that I am trying to ask. Why does Harry only have two classes on most days? Is there no third and fourth period? The only other explanation is that each day does consist entirely of two long periods....but, as I wrote above, this possibility doesn't allow Snape and other teachers enough time to be teaching many other students. -- UnicornWolf (talk) 23:35, February 22, 2014 (UTC) ::I'm sorry; now the question makes sense. I suppose there are other classes, we just don't know about them; that, of course, is only my opinion, because I don't think that's ever been addressed. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 00:01, February 23, 2014 (UTC) :::You're probably going to get a better idea of the timetable from the one from the movie. I assume the reason the video game info is used over the movie info is that the movie info conflicts with the books. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'Snorlax']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'Monster']] 01:46, February 23, 2014 (UTC) Clean Up Needed The word choice and grammar are rather lacking, especially in the portion of the page talking about Harry's experiences at Hogwarts. Dr. Galenos (talk) 03:39, April 7, 2014 (UTC) Potions According to the timetable, harry attended Potions three times a week! However this cannot be true. Harry's first Potions lesson was on Friday and the lessons started on September 2 (Monday). This means Harry attended Potions only once a week (two periods). Should I change the timetable? -- GianG (talk) 17:46, January 28, 2015 (UTC) :Agreed. The article currently sources this as information from the video games, but that's hardly canon since it directly contradicts the books. Besides, there are so many versions of the first Harry Potter game and each of them presents classes in their own order, that it's pretty impossible to reconcile them all (not to mention, that it's impossible to determine which day of the week it is in most versions of the game). -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 22:28, January 28, 2015 (UTC) ::I'll delete Potions lessons. -- GianG (talk) 14:41, January 29, 2015 (UTC) :::I've completely rewritten the timetable, and added notes fully sourcing it and explaining it. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 20:07, January 29, 2015 (UTC) Transferring Harry Potter's info As the page is meant to review the common elements of all Hogwarts first-year students (sorting, classes, etc), why is Harry's year summarized here? Shouldn't that be fully covered both at Harry Potter and 1991–1992 school year (as well as and )? I would suggest that his details be merged into those articles as needed so that when articles link here, the info is relevant for all first years. --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:13, May 22, 2017 (UTC) : The article 1991-1992 school year is meant to cover information that was known to most Hogwarts students independent of the year they were in at that time. I agree it should all be moved to Harry Potter's biography if its not already covered uunder it. And the same applies for articles on other years.--Rodolphus (talk) 15:30, May 22, 2017 (UTC) :: The same extensive problem appears on the Second year page as well, but every page for each year reviews just Harry's role in depth as well. Maybe they need to be rewritten slighty and the information merged with other appropriate pages? Perhaps "History" is a better title for that section to make it more clear that it isn't just about Harry? -- Kates39 (talk) 15:49, May 22, 2017 (UTC) ::: The trouble I see with a "History" section is that these pages are commonly linked to like "During his first year", or "in her fourth year" so it's not specific to a particular year such as 1991, but more the year of study at Hogwarts. Linking from Cho's first year and Harry's first year don't align in time, but do align in common events such as taking the boats, sorting, classes, restrictions, and the other info from the first half of the article. --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:05, May 22, 2017 (UTC) :::: Unless there is a strong and compelling argument against, I am going to start merging Harry's info into his article today. That way future work can be focused there instead of just replicating the same info into this article where it doesn't quite fit. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:41, May 24, 2017 (UTC) ::::: In working through this, another option might be to make a new 'Harry Potter's first year at Hogwarts' article so that Harry Potter has a summary of each year, with a Main Article link to the article with all the extra details. Harry Potter is a large article as it is, so this might work to both remove Harry's info from First year, but not lead to the editing problems we saw before Harry Potter's relationships was separated out. Although why this shouldn't be in 1991–1992 school year is not real clear to me. Anyone have thoughts? --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:18, May 24, 2017 (UTC) :::::: Talked it over with User:Seth Cooper and Harry Potter seems like the right place for this info. I will continue to transfer over Second Year, Third Year, etc and we can go from there in cleaning it up, adding refs, images, etc. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:55, May 24, 2017 (UTC) ┌──────────┘ Hi there, I know this will look like I'm late into the game but the truth is I've been confused about the inclusion treatment of First year#Harry Potter's first year (1991-1992) since it was present. (so it wasn't recent, just fyi lol) I'm still very confused as to why First year is thought to be the best location for the information; I'm here at the article to learn the general info about first years, not a specific first year, translation: Definitely not Harry's first year. What confused me more was that it had placed, and 1991–1992 school year clearly has less info on the matter. I completely disagree with what Rodolphus said: "The article 1991-1992 school year is meant to cover information that was known to most Hogwarts students independent of the year they were in at that time." Please direct me to where this is decided so I can vote for it to be changed. This is a community where people can discuss treatment, no? And why do I disagree? Even if the books are written in the way that we are seeing events with a biased lens (via Harry), the events that happened in his first year, whether or not is is known to most Hogwarts students, happened in 1991–1992 school year, that, should be a fact. If I want to look up events that happened in 1991–1992 school year, that page should have held the info, regardless of how wide known those events are in-universe. To me, "known to most Hogwarts students independent of the year" is almost irrelevant. Oh, and just to be clear, I am actually not proposing to simply relocate the entire First year#Harry Potter's first year (1991-1992) section to 1991–1992 school year; I agree that a lot of them seemed suitable for Harry's bio (I'm not sure if there's already duplicate before the transfer mentioned above, or I'm seeing some results of it). However I think the following sections: *First year#The Hogwarts Express *First year#Start of Term *First year#First years lessons/classes **The flying class led to Harry breaking a record and being the youngest Seeker. *First year#The Midnight Duel **The duel led to the chain reaction of discovery what's behind the trapdoor. *First year#Trouble With A Troll **Prelude of sorts of Plot to steal the Philosopher's Stone; also the establishment of friendship between the trio. *First year#Quidditch *First year#The Christmas season *First year#Gryffindor vs Hufflepuff *First year#Detention *First year#The Philosopher's Stone Seems like they have the potential to be modified to be present at 1991–1992 school year. I'm also not saying the sections should be kept as they are; if people prefer short-to-the-point-bulletpoints, I'm sure that's doable, though personally I think that while I can appreciate the straightforwardness of 1991–1992 school year#Events, (3 bulletpoints for the entire school year!) it shouldn't hurt to have an "Overview" section to cover some prominent moments in that school year, in paragraphs. Since it's called "Overview", I don't believe in the need of 10 subsections for it. I understand I can just be bold and proceed the editing, but I figured if the majority of the community is against the idea, it's not worth spending time on it just for the idea to be later shot down. =P Being realistic here. Not urgent in need of a response, but would like to hear folks' opinions nonetheless; the last timestamp of this discussion would be 2 years old in a few months, and Harry's first year is still present in the article, so would just like to know what's going on. =D --Sammm✦✧(talk) 21:10, February 19, 2019 (UTC) Other schools By the way, should this article be rewritten to include what is known about other wizarding schools' first years (Ilvermorny Sorting and wand selection ceremonies and Mahoutokoro's robe presentation. Should the Ilvermorny Ceremonies perhaps even get their own articles, similar to the Hogwarts Sorting Ceremony article? We could even create articles on the Ilvermorny entrance hall (We have had Beauxbatons dining chamber and numerous Hagwarst room articles) and the Ilvermorny Sorting statues (being the Ilvermorny counterpart of the Sorting Hat) --Rodolphus (talk) 15:30, May 22, 2017 (UTC) : I had thought something similar - should First year cover all schools, or should it be renamed to just be specific to Hogwarts? : As for Ilvermorny ceremonies and locations, I don't see why they couldn't have their own articles, but I don't see a real need either as they are just a sub-section of Ilvermorny School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. With Hogwarts there is both more info and differering appearances and portrayals across books, films, and games so having separate articles helps more IMHO. --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:41, May 22, 2017 (UTC) Timetable The timetable under the heading of the same name is very specific and I was wondering where the times came from? The books only say something was in the morning, after lunch or in the afternoon. They never give an actual time for when the lessons began, or when breakfast, lunch, dinner and bed time is. I think the timetable under "Behind the scenes" is more appropriate as it has a valid source. I am also happy to go through the ebook and make a timetable from there. -- Kates39 (talk) 22:02, May 25, 2017 (UTC) : After digging through the history on the page, it looks the specific times were added here, by a single-edit user with only the commentary that it was made from "combing through the book". I have played the PC, GBA, and GBC versions of the game and such specific times are never given. I also haven't found any evidence for these times in checking some youtube playthroughs of the PS1 and PS2 versions, but perhaps someone who has played these can confirm. The previous version of the timetable with the notes Seth added later might be a good place to start in re-working this info. Given some of the details about meal times might help to better define when classes start and end though. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:58, May 25, 2017 (UTC) :: I have restored the previous timeline with Seth's notes and so far, I think that timeline is right and matches the only information in the book. I will keep going through the book though and making notes, and will see what I can find in the next ones as well to see whether we can get a better picture of when classes start and end. Thanks! -- Kates39 (talk) 23:02, May 26, 2017 (UTC) Move timetables to "1991-1992 school year" type pages I am going to suggest that timetables should to be moved from year of study (eg first year) to the related calendar year pages (eg 1991–1992 school year) as although the classes taken are specific to a student's year of study, the actual schedule or timetable differs year to year. As an example, in 1994, we know sixth year Cedric has first term Charms on Monday morning after breakfast: - "When he Harry awoke on Monday morning"... "“Don’t bother,” said Cedric in an exasperated voice as his friends bent down to help him. “Tell Flitwick I’m coming, go on. . . .”" However, when Harry is in his first term of sixth year he has DADA on Mondays between free periods - “we’ve got a free period now . . . and a free period after break . . . and after lunch . . . excellent!” ... "An hour later they reluctantly left the sunlit common room for the Defense Against the Dark Arts classroom four floors below." (Charms is on Monday second term but it sounds like later in the day - see ) There are many other examples if you compare across the books that the timetable for classes is not linked to the year of the student (first year, second year, etc) but it tied to the calendar year (1991–1992 school year, 1992–1993 school year, etc). Anyone have an objection to this move or any other thoughts? Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:28, June 1, 2017 (UTC) : I agree. I was thinking about this the other day when I was checking the timetable. I work in a school, and we change the timetable at the start of every year depending on how many students want to study particular subjects and how we can adapt the timetable for them. I think it makes more sense to have the individual timetables on the calendar year pages. -- Kates39 (talk) 19:10, June 2, 2017 (UTC) :: A clear example of the timetable differences year-to-year is Percy's seventh year compared to Neville's for instance. Also, by moving them to calendar year pages (eg 1991–1992 school year) we can also talk about what is known of the timetable for other student years' classes (from hints about the timetables for Cho, Katie, Fred & George, etc for that calendar year). I'll start to reorganize. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 20:36, June 2, 2017 (UTC) ::: I will go through the books as well and make note of any other hints I can find to help out. -- Kates39 (talk) 20:46, June 2, 2017 (UTC) :::: Sounds good - I started noticing lots of time hints from POA onwards (Hermione's has several classes starting at 9am, Cho has DADA on Friday right before dinner, detentions/Quidditch practice can start at 5 p.m. on weekdays, double potions is 90 minutes, etc) so there is a chance of building up some detailed timetables I think. Good luck! --Ironyak1 (talk) 21:07, June 2, 2017 (UTC)